Tuesday, October 24, 2006

Plummer or Cutler?



I know a lot of Denver fans are calling for Plummers head on a stick because the lack of offensive productivity, however, the Broncos are atop the AFC West with a 5-1 record and are sitting as the #2 seed in the AFC if the playoffs were to start today. What are your thoughts on whether the Broncos should stick with Plummer or go to the unproven rookie Cutler.

31 Comments:

Blogger Jamezwp said...

Jake Plummer has only made our victories more difficult to achieve. period. Other than him having a stronger grasp of the playbook, he offers no more to the Broncos offense than Jay Cutler does. On the flip side, Jay Cutler has the potential to offer more than Jake Plummer offers. If Jay Cutler gets put into the game this week, sure, he is going to make some rookie mistakes. He is going to make a few bad reads, he is going to call a few bad audibles, and he is going to throw a couple bad passes. But who fricken cares, that's exactly what Plummer is doing every game and we are still in a position to win by virtue of our strong running game and superior defensive play. The upside is Cutler may develop relatively quickly into what Plummer isn't capable of. And if he doesn't, what have we lost? absolutley nothing. Plummer isn't even playing at the level of Matt Lineart, or last year's JP Lossman's stats, he is barely above Vince Youngs statistics. If Jake Plummer can have a 60 QB Rating and we are still 5-1, how bad would it be if we put a highly touted, gun slinging rookie in?

11:30 AM  
Blogger Steve said...

Ahhh...interesting points there Jamezwp, excellent debate materials.

Now, some of you probably expect me to disagree because I am known as the Devils "Foodcake" Advocate and in this situation I will continue to disagree for argument sakes. However, I will also agree with a few points by you Jamezwp.

First off - the winning margin this year has been a bit closer than in years past. It is true that Jake is making some bad reads and throws, but I don't necessarily blame the lack of production on offense to him alone. Now since this blog is about Cutler or Plummer, the only argument I have to disagree with you on is the Broncos record. Even though you're going to point out the defense has been sick which is 90% why we are winning games, there still need to be enough offensive productivity to score more than what the defense allows. So all I can say is that Plummer has won 3x more games than lost while in Denver. He has brought us to the AFC Title game.

I've never been a fan of replacing a QB mid-season unless you've lost all hope for that season. The Cards went with Leinert (who by the way still has yet to win a game) and the Titans went with Young who has won just 1 game. Not trying to compare Cutler to these two because the teams are totally different, but I wouldn't feel comfortable putting Cutler in right now. WE are facing the best team in the AFC this week and I think Plummer gives us the best chance of winning. Sure it may be a 6-3 win, but it's a win!

I'll bring up the past a bit, in 2000 more specifically when Ravens fans were calling for Dilfers head. After they went on to score 34 against a solid Giants defense, folks were praising him and pissed at team management for letting Dilfer go.

IF Denver decided to go with Cutler, it should have been during the Raiders game or Cleveland game...a team that is considered less of an opponent, but when facing a strong team like the Colts, I don't believe a fresh rookie who has yet to take an NFL snap in a regular season game is going to answer Denver's struggling offensive issues.

But Jamezwp, I completely agree with your points...I'm not sure Denver is that much worse off than what they are now if Cutler goes in, but there is always that rookie factor. Besides Roethlisburger, name a rookie QB that has totally succeeded his first year?

2:01 PM  
Blogger RED said...

Marino had 20 TD's and 6 INT's his 1st season. The next season he tossed for 5000 yards and 48 TD's. Elway had only 7 TD's and 14 int's his rookie season... So much for any theory there.

Either way Plummer is having a terrible season and if Cutler were to come in and perform like Plummer we'd be better off for the future. Why not start Cutler now? Plummer is done. Any of Plummers success has came from the great coaching and system here in Denver. Plummer is crap. I've always believed that. Like I said we only have to gain and nothing to lose by starting the Cut. Start em now with a great defense behind him. On the other hand lets see what Jake can do against the Colts before we make that decision.

5:38 PM  
Blogger quest4facts said...

Jake Plummer is the QB for now and I think that Cutler can't come in and have as good of a grasp of the offense (The 6 months he learned it) and be more effective than Jake. I am a level headed Bronco fan and I think taking Jake out now is a BIG mistake. I think Jay Cutler will be a great quarterback when he gets his turn ans I am a HUGE Cutler fan. For now we have to support the guy we have and let the coaches coach and the players play. Jay Cutler has as much potential as anyone we have seen; but to put him in now when the Broncos were 1 win away from getting to the Superbowl last year is ridiculous. Plummer threw some picks (last year and this year) but I don't think he is the same wild gunslinger that he was when he came into Denver. If the Broncos go on to win the superbowl this year, just imagine what great trade bait Plummer would be!

11:21 AM  
Blogger Steve said...

Who said anything about any theories? All I said was name a rookie QB who had a successful season besides Roethlisburger. You named Elway who had a piss-poor rookie year and Marino who did well, but wasn't all that successful.

Stop reading into things that aren't said...

Now, back to the issue at hand - and I think Red hit on it again that Denver isn't any worse off going with Cutler this year. I agree with this for the most part. However, I also just can't see a team that is 5-1 switching QB's mid-season with no injuries. I think Denver is a play here and a play there from being very successful, so I guess I just don't understand the urgency from Denver fans to bench Plummer? I mean hell, we are 5-1, yes our defense has been the main contributor behind that, but so what, we are still 5-1 with Plummer as QB. I guess, in my opinion, I would need more a reason to bench Plummer for a rookie QB, especially against teams like the Colts and Steelers.

On the other hand…to be more on the side of Red and Jamezwp – Denver does provide Cutler a great supporting cast (Defense, special teams and other offensive weapons), which I firmly believe was the main reason for Roethlisburger’s success his rookie season. This supporting cast could very well be the right formula for Cutler to have less pressure on him, but allow for him to have the playing experience for the future. I think we all agree that Cutler is indeed Denver’s future and with what’s in place now, the supporting cast may be perfect!

I’m honestly a torn man on this subject. I don’t feel comfortable switching QB’s, but I also don’t want to wait around and watch our starting QB continue to struggle (mid-season nonetheless) and wait for him to cost us a much needed win. Perhaps a benching in the 2nd half would spark a fire under his ass? It was funny though, last season nobody was bitching about Plummer and now everyone has turned against him.

12:02 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Great game....the Colts are a damn good team, so hats off to them. with that performance, Plummer does not deserve to be benched.

7:38 AM  
Blogger Jamezwp said...

Well, that was one above average game under his belt for this season. Although you can't give Plummer to much credit, they lost. On 3rd and 9 from the 31 yard line on the final drive, knowing a field goal isn't going to do shit for you, knowing you need a first down to stay alive, knowing you HAVE TO PICK UP THIS FIRST DOWN, Plummer one hops it to Rod for an incomplete pass and essentially ending the game.
That's what I'm talking about, given the situation when all the chips are on the table, and you need your QB to step up and make a play, when he needs to say "hey, don't worry, I got this" he can't. He failed again. I knew it was coming, I knew when it was 3rd and 9 with 3 minutes left and you need a big money play from your QB, I didn't have the slightest bit of confidence that Plummer was going to come through. That's what I'm talking about.

On a positive note, I think we found the real starting tailback.

4:48 PM  
Blogger Jamezwp said...

in a nutshell, Plummer can make some plays when the defense isn't expecting them, that's the benefit of playing in Denver. He can roll out and throw on the run. He is good with the bootleg. He can scramble at times.

But when the defense knows a pass is coming, when everybody at the game and every coach on the field and everybody watching from home knows a pass is coming.....it's 3rd and 9, it's 2 minute warning time, whatever....We all know what Plummer can do, I just want to see what Cutler can do. Because unless you have a guy that can step up at those times, you will NEVER win a superbowl.

By waiting to put Cutler in until later, you are just sacrificing later. I'm ready to sacrifice now because I know we can't accomplish what we want under the current circumstances.

4:58 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Ahhh, though I can agree with the pass, Plummer did make 1 excellent play by not getting sacked. Think about it, if he gets sacked, that now becomes a 55+ field goal for the tie, but he was able to escape a strong blitz and got himself out of trouble...so I can't give him great credit on that play, but I can't give him no credit either - his feet certainly kept that field-goal alive.

As far as the starting Tailback - I don't think Mike Bell is. It's going to be a good day for any RB who plays against the 31st ranked rushing defense in the league. Next week, no matter who is in, we won't be having many rushing yards - but I'm not too concerned with who starts there because I think both backs can succeed.

5:02 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

yet another interesing point Jamezwp - that is a case where a first down would have made a difference. But, as with most things, you put a person in a position with things leading up to that play. Two running plays for 1 yard on 1st and 2nd down does make it an obvious passing situation. When that is the case and you have Dwight Freeney going against, undrafted, rookie Eric Pears, chances are you're going to have a lot of pressure. In that exact play, I'm not sure Cutler would have been able to do the same thing (getting out of the sack, then completing the pass). Guess we will never know, but the point here is you're willing to take that chance with someone who is unproven in the NFL vs someone who has the NFL experience. Of course in order to get experience, you need to have the chance and while I agree a chance should have been given, it should have been against teams like Oakland and Cleveland...not against the Colts or Pittsburgh.

5:07 PM  
Blogger Jamezwp said...

First of all, you can lick it stamp it and take it to the bank, Mike Bell is the new starting tailback. You're right, anybody can have a good game against the 31st ranked defense, except Tatum Bell. Tatum is gone, he will fill in at times but Mike is the starter. You can count on it. Gotta go home, c u tomarrow.

5:15 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Mike Bell may be the starter, but, next week it won't matter, Denver is playing a great rush defense. Following that game, they will still split time, and M Bell may be the starter...as long as one of them can continue to produce a 100 yard game after games, I don't care if Bradshaw is the starting RB.

9:30 PM  
Anonymous Mike Shanahan said...

I wish I had the balls to put in Jay Cutler, he is a much better all around QB. Jake Plummer is a bum. Jamezwp is right!

11:17 AM  
Blogger RED said...

Well good thing they took my advice and got a rookie Rb

10:57 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Good thing they took my advice and didn't draft a rookie RB.

7:01 AM  
Anonymous The Brain said...

Good thing they filled the need

3:04 PM  
Anonymous The Real Brain said...

Good thing they did fill the need of picking up a good WR. Mike Bell has not been a factor for Denver in the running game - he has 1 good game, in a losing effort

6:05 PM  
Blogger Jamezwp said...

He had 1 good game with 1 opportunity given. Sure, he didn't do shit against the Steelers but who does? Mike Bell is a much better back than Tatum.

10:18 AM  
Anonymous The Real Brain said...

I believe he also started @ St Louis

7:52 PM  
Blogger Jamezwp said...

well, your belief is wrong because he didn't start against St. Louis. Tatum started the game and they alternated series. Mike Bell had a 5.8 yard average on 10 carries. Your brain needs to study a little bit more before you come in hear with that weak ass rhetoric of "Mike Bell hasn't been a factor" bull shit. If it wasn't for Mike Bell, Indy would have beat the Broncos by a hell of a lot more than 3 points.

9:33 AM  
Anonymous The Real Brain said...

I can't believe you are saying that Mike has been a factor for this team. He had 1 good game, in a losing effort, take away that game he has 55 cairries for 169 yards for a 3.1 yard per average mark. How is that being a factor? And so what if Denver lost by more against the Colts, they still lost, does not matter if it's by 1 or a 100 because it is still a loss.

7:32 AM  
Anonymous nn said...

Both of you are gayzoros

9:47 PM  
Blogger Jamezwp said...

nn....

just because our great country has fallen into the hands of Nancy Pelosi doesn't mean you have to call us names. Just wait until Hillary gets elected, then you can call us names.

1:43 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Go Giuliani for President '08

6:12 PM  
Blogger Jamezwp said...

He won't get the nomination - he's pro choice

9:21 AM  
Anonymous nn said...

Dude, that wasn't me.

11:30 PM  
Anonymous me said...

Jay is a pretty bad QB.Against the
Seahawks he chuncked the ball strait up as if trying to throw an
INT.Against the Bengals they messed up for our win,he didn't
do anything.

4:23 PM  
Anonymous me said...

If they can,broncos should draft
David Irons to replace Derrent.

4:28 PM  
Anonymous me said...

Another QB would do.

4:30 PM  
Anonymous me said...

Kenny Irons is a fast RB and could
be drafted as a SS,DB,or WR.

4:33 PM  
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1:54 PM  

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