Saturday, April 29, 2006

The Future!

Not since Tommy Maddox in 1992 when he was the 25th player selected in the 1st round have the Broncos selcted a 1st round QB. This was the lowest QB pick in the draft since John Elway. This says a lot for Cutler to be chosen so high. how long before Denver fans will be calling for plummers head and chanting Cutler! Cutler! Cutler!


Anonymous Anonymous said...

ESPN's biggest draft day winner is:

1. Denver Broncos: Mike Shanahan whipped all the critics by acquiring the Cleveland Browns defensive line in 2005 and parlaying those acquisitions into a trip to the AFC title game. This year, Shanahan draws nothing but praise. Instead of drafting wide receiver Santonio Holmes with the 15th pick, the Broncos traded up to the 11th pick to get quarterback Jay Cutler. Then they found the reciever that they needed, trading just a second-round pick to the Packers for Javon Walker. Clearly, they were the biggest winners on the first day of the draft. Shanahan hasn't had any luck drafting receivers, so being able to trade for Walker instead of drafting a reciever was a better move. Getting a veteran as talented as Walker for a second-round pick is a steal. Shanahan set the franchise up well for the short-term and the long-term. The Broncos get Walker for the 2006 season, and they have Cutler as the quarterback of the future.

8:06 PM  
Blogger RED said...


11:37 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

I'd be susprised to see the Broncos bench Plummer and start Cutler, unless Plummer is just having an aweful year (which is very much a possibility). Fans though will be chanting for Plummers head on a grill after his first interception so the real question shouldn't be able the fan, but about the organization.

I don't see Cutler starting this season at all, may get a few snaps if Denver should blow out a team, but quite honestly, Cutler needs to learn and prepare for his playing days on the bench.

Plummer again may not be Mr QB of the future here in Denver, but right now, there are no "better" options for Denver to go, especially considering we just lost in the AFC Title Game.

Denver did address their #1 need though by picking up Walker. This means he must be healthy enough to show up to training camp ready to go and that's exciting. Imagine Walker and Smith as your wideouts...who do you double? I think you will start out doubling Smith because of Walker's injury, but if he makes plays like he did in GB, our passing game will open wide up.

Denver certainly had a great first day in the draft, hopefully we can find a few needles in the haystack today in the later rounds.

8:39 AM  
Blogger Jamezwp said...

This is a situation were it would be very convinient for Plummer to have a season ending injury. Maybe a torn ACL in camp or something. That way we could see what Cutler would do right out of the gate. Otherwise, when does this become Cutlers team? 2-3 years from now. It will be very strange if Plummer starts having some questionable games and the home crowd is calling for Cutler. How is Shanahan going to react. Shanny has always had to defend Plummer in the press, it will be interesting.

It was quite evident what facet of the game the Broncos are worried about (not the running game RED). They drafted a QB, TE, WR, and picked up Walker. I think they made the right moves. Now we'll just have to see how long it takes for Shanny to give Cutler the keys to the Ferrari.

1:48 PM  
Blogger RED said...

Well james it's a shame they didn't address the RB situation and it will haunt them, mark my words.

7:34 PM  
Blogger RED said...

Dude you are really gonna have faith in Cecil Sapp if Dayne or Bell goes down?

7:48 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Red, didn't you also tell us to "mark my words" that Denver was going to draft RB?

Have a little faith in the system fellow Bronco fan!

6:53 AM  
Blogger RED said...

They should have man... You don't always have to agree with Shanny. Tell me what you think of the current RB situation Steve?

1:22 PM  
Blogger RED said...

I do have faith but I just have to disagree with the decision not to snag up a RB this year in the draft especially with the success we have had in the past selecting RB's. Are you really happy with Dayne, Bell and Sapp. Really Steve break down what you truly feel about our Rb situation, go off the facts of what they all have proven and give me a scenerio if Bell or Dayne goes down...

1:36 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Fair questions Red, so I’ll respond back to you…

1st though, I just want to go on record by saying stop trying to “defend” yourself. I am not agreeing with Shanahan. I specifically said before the draft that if Cutler were to fall to that #15 seed we should snag his ass up, but instead, they went up to get him…I’m fine with that. I also said we needed to address our WR situation, which we did by getting Walker.

So before I go on, stop trying to humiliate others by saying dumb comments like that and just provide accurate facts around your thoughts. Nobody cares that you want the Broncos to go RB, but not once did you provide any sort of logical comments that support your beliefs other than “Dayne is washed up and Bell is injured.” Please, give us solid examples.

With that said, you asked some good questions so I will respond accordingly.

Regarding the current RB situation: I am not 100% confident in Denver’s running game. And I probably won’t be unless we had Clinton Portis or Tomlinson in our backfield. However, this does not mean I am against it either. I believe Denver will again be successful with the two RB set as we’ve seem to have in the past couple of years. Lets start from a few years ago. Denver had a guy named Portis who ran for 1591 yards. As a team, Denver had 2629 yards total. We then got rid of Portis and stuck with a guy named Rueben Droughns in 2004. This is the same Droughns who rushed for 14 yards on 6 carries in 2003. Droughns then went on to have a 1240 yard season and the team finished with 2333 yards. Then last season we had Mike Anderson who finished with 1014 yards, but as a team still had 2539 yards total on the ground. For some reason you considered Anderson to be this magical work-horse, which I don’t see the connection. Sure he “started” games, but lets compare last seasons stats

Anderson, 239 carries, 1014 yards, 12 TD
Bell, 173 carries, 921 yards, 8 TD

According to my calculations, Anderson had 66 more carries than Bell but only had 93 more yards. So I don’t see your connection of this magical work-horse creature you’re referring to.

Here is where the difference is Red, you want a 1-back system, a back who can be a CP or Tomlinson (not that I blame you for wanting it), and Denver doesn’t have the personnel to accomplish this.

You also keep bringing up a what-if question and I really hate what-if questions. What if Dayne or Bell go down? What if the world blows up man? You hope a team and it’s players are prepared to play as starters. Obviously injury is going to hamper any team, but no team in the league is going to have Tomlinson as their starter, Portis as their backup and James as the 3rd string. So what you’re asking is really a question that is about any position. So let me propose a silly question to you, what if we drafted Williams and he gets injured and so does Bell or Dayne, then what? We can go through the entire roster being injured and it’s not going to resolve anything, so instead of asking silly rhetorical questions provide us examples of why you think Dayne and Dell won’t get it done?

I’ll leave with this thought…nobody knew what Droughns was capable of. The guy was in his 4th year in the league having barely picked up 97 yards on 40 carries before his break out season. That example alone should prove it’s more the system than the back.

Here’s another fact, Dayne had 270 yards on 53 carries last season for Denver – that’s a 5.1 average…not too bad for someone who is “washed” up.

But as far as “proofs” of what you’re asking for…my proof isn’t the backs, my proof is the system Denver has

2:26 PM  
Blogger RED said...

It's much deeper then that. The fact we have only won one playoff game since the last superbowl is the big point. Yes we have had a system that produces great rushing numbers but we have not accomplihed much more then that. Yes last season we went to the AFC championship game and what a great thing it was. The fact is we didn't get past the Steelers and on to the SuperBowl which is the main goal here. I believe with a solid running back situation which we do have accompineed by a good defense we can do that. Our problem has been converting 3rd down conversions and red zone opportunities. I don't believe Tatum Bell is the answer to short yardage situations... i think you can agree with that.. That is why i asked the question if one of them were to go down what would we do in that situation, especially if it were Ron Dayne. Ron Dayne statictiacally has been inconsistant his entire career, yes he had a huge run against Dallas that really packed his stats but he is never the less still an unproven back in my eyes. Tatum is tender and you can see that, he is undersized and he had a proven tendancy to get injured. Of course that is what if, and who knows we might have an injusry free season at the RB position, but I still believe that Shanny messed up by not atleast drafting one running back ESPECIALLY with the success that he has had doing so.

2:46 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Ahhhhh Red - I must congratulate you my friend...that was without a doubt one of your best posts EVER. And I mean that, you clearly spoke intelligenty about your beliefs and I appreciate that.

Going back on some of your comments about winning playoff games is indeed a huge deal and is what playing in the NFL is all about, getting that ring. How many playoff games did we win with Portis at the helm? How about Anderson or Droughns? Your quote, “It's much deeper then that.” – it is! It is going to take more than a RB to get Denver over that hump. We didn’t get past the Steelers for multiple reasons and if you put the running game anywhere in the top 5, then you must not have been watching. First off the defense was atrocious, couldn’t stop anything on 3rd and long, then Jake having a high turnover game. Going down to the rushing game, oh yeah, we only had 21 total rushes for 97 yards. 21 rushes? Of those, 7 were by Plummer…so between Anderson and Bell, they only carried the ball 14 times. I call that a bad game plan!

Now reading on here…I agree, Bell isn’t the answer to short-yardage situations, but then again Red…HE NEVER WAS THE GO-TO-GUY in those situations. Short yardage situations if you’re missing an important piece, you do something different. Denver has mastered rolling out, bootlegs, hell they can even do quick slants etc. But as a team, you don’t prepare for injuries, you prepare as starters so if you do play because of injuries nothing is lost. Same with the coaching staff, you evaluate your players based upon their skills. At no time did Denver trust Bell in short-yardage so why would that question even be asked?

Dayne may be unproven, but why were you so “gung-ho” for Droughns? Talk about unproven, 97 yards off of 30 carries in 3 years but you were for him and against Dayne…I don’t get it!

3:02 PM  
Blogger RED said...

The situation was much different at the time, at the time i don't believe we were much of a contendor and short yardage situation shit, i remember not using Anderson or Dayne and instead Bell in a short goaline situation in Miami, remember that one? Yes it was a while back but still, he should not have been the man to go to. And let's look at when we were succesful, it was back when we had a guy names Terrell Davis who was a work horse and put up big numbers in playoff games, shit had the best 100 yard streak in playoff history as a matter of fact. I see Denver relying on Plummer way too much and if you can't see that Steve, well i don't know what to say... We need a back that can give us the big yards at big times in the games, and in PLAYOFF games! Therefore we can eat up the clock and not be on defense all damn day! How many 3rd and outs did we have because we couldnt pick up 5-6 yards within the 1st two downs. We only averaged 3 yards on rushing on 2nd downs, that just doesnt cut it. We need to make a move soon for a back and my idea would be to dump Bell and go after somebody.

4:48 PM  
Blogger RED said...

I believe Stephen Davis is available is I am not mistaken

4:51 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

You know, you touched on it beautifully, then you redirected yourself to something out of the picture. You're right, Shanahan relies on Plummer too hit the nail on the head with that! Now why is that? We had the 2nd best rushing offense in the NFL last season behind Atlanta by 10 yards. It's called poor play calling. How many times during the AFC Title game did Denver throw on 1st and 2nd down? If you throw on 1st and are incomplete, you're left with a 2nd and long and picking up a respectable 4 yards still leaves a long 3rd down play, obvious passing situation. Here, I'll point copy out play-by-play from the AFC Title game...

1st drive:
1st and 10 at DEN 21 (14:55) M.Anderson up the middle to DEN 23 for 2 yards (T.Polamalu).
2nd and 8 at DEN 23 (14:14) M.Anderson right end to DEN 28 for 5 yards (C.Haggans).
3rd and 3 at DEN 28 (13:26) T.Bell right tackle to DEN 32 for 4 yards (L.Foote).
1st and 10 at DEN 32 (12:46) J.Plummer pass to J.Putzier pushed ob at PIT 49 for 19 yards (L.Foote).
1st and 10 at PIT 49 (12:12) J.Plummer right end to PIT 48 for 1 yard (B.Keisel).
2nd and 9 at PIT 48 (11:32) M.Anderson left tackle to PIT 44 for 4 yards (T.Polamalu; D.Townsend).
3rd and 5 at PIT 44 (10:52) J.Plummer pass incomplete to R.Smith.
4th and 5 at PIT 44 (10:47) T.Sauerbrun punts 36 yards to PIT 8, Center-M.Leach, fair catch by A.Randle El.

Here you can see, the drive stalled because Plummer rushed for 1 yard, then Anderson had a 4rd yard run leaving a long 3rd down play for incomplete pass.

Lets go further...
Next drive, two complete passes, then Plummer fumbles...

Next drive...
1st and 10 at DEN 40 (14:54) T.Bell left end to DEN 40 for no gain (C.Hampton).
2nd and 10 at DEN 40 (14:13) J.Plummer up the middle to DEN 41 for 1 yard (J.Porter).
3rd and 9 at DEN 41 (13:32) J.Plummer pass to T.Bell to DEN 49 for 8 yards (T.Polamalu).
4th and 1 at DEN 49 (13:32) M.Anderson to 50 for 1 yard (B.Keisel).
1st and 10 at 50 (12:16) J.Plummer pass incomplete to A.Lelie (J.Farrior).
2nd and 10 at 50 (12:12) M.Anderson right tackle to PIT 43 for 7 yards (C.Hope, J.Porter).
3rd and 3 at PIT 43 (11:32) J.Plummer pass to M.Anderson pushed ob at PIT 30 for 13 yards (L.Foote).
1st and 10 at PIT 30 (11:00) J.Plummer pass to J.Putzier to PIT 12 for 18 yards (D.Townsend).
1st and 10 at PIT 12 (10:14) J.Plummer pass incomplete to A.Lelie.
Timeout #1 by DEN at 10:09.
2nd and 10 at PIT 12 (10:09) J.Plummer pass incomplete to M.Anderson.
3rd and 10 at PIT 12 (10:06) M.Anderson right tackle to PIT 5 for 7 yards (C.Hope, C.Haggans).
4th and 3 at PIT 5 (9:27) J.Elam 23 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-M.Leach, Holder-J.Plummer.

Here we clearly see Anderson picking up a 4th and 1 (your so-called need big yards in big games did come through), drive kept alive and we got a fieldgoal.

Oh but gee-whiz, Pittsburgh scores another TD to go up 17-3 in the 2nd qtr.

Next drive by Denver, Plummer intercepted. Oh gee-whiz, Pittsburgh scores again, now down 24-3 at the half...

So tell me Red with all that play-by-play, how in the hell would a "better" back get the job done when the defense couldn't stop shit and all those turnovers by Plummer?

What I'm saying here is it's NOT about the RB, we lost that game because of many things and a #1 RB wouldn't have done shit for us then. You bring up rushing stats on 1st and 2nd down, but from what game...that stat wasn't from the entire season.

5:03 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Stephen Davis I think would be a wrong move. If we are going to go RB, then we should pick up someone who is younger and has less injuries. I've enjoyed his career, but that's like bringing in Garrison Hearst again.

5:05 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Answer this question for me were so gung-ho for Droughns to come in (I've pointed out his career stats before then and way unproven), why have faith in him and not Dayne?

5:12 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

This is the dumb ass comments Red replies back with...I'm trying to talk intelligently about the sport and about his thoughts and I post something he can't get out of or talk his BS way out of, so he cries and replies to me with this, "this season will speak foor itself, have fun wearing your ron dayne jersey!"

Common dude...perhaps people would enjoy posting on here more often if you'd actually give some thoughful responses instead of this childish ass shit.

5:15 PM  
Blogger RED said...

We are a superbowlk contending team, we were not a superbowl contending team when we had Droughns cause there were too many holes on defense and everything was still fresh with Plummer. Now we got a great shot of doing something and i see our only hole being the Rb position, we fixed up the WR situation, we got a good enough line, our D is gonna be good like last year cause there isn't too many changes. now if you really think that the biggest aspect of out offense which is the running game is going to be lead by Dayne and Belll then more power to you, who knows we might just go far enough into the playoffs again just to get booted. I'm not blaming the loss to Pitt on the Rb situation i just bellieve that with a better back we could possibly have used more game clock and not had to rely onb Plummer as much!

5:21 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Ok, NOW the situation is after we addressed our other needs. Now I can clearly see a want to upgrade the RB situation, but this conversation was nothing about post-draft results, this was your pre-draft wishes.

Hey, if there is a solid RB out there, lets discuss them...

5:25 PM  
Blogger RED said...

And I still stand by what I said thhey should have drafted a RB... And as far as what is out there, well Stephen Davis is...

6:41 PM  
Blogger Jamezwp said...

LMAO Steve, I have exhausted myself with regard to this subject. Therefore I will only make this comment, I feel your pain.

7:08 PM  
Blogger Jamezwp said...

OMG! now Stephen Davis is the answer? When was the last time he was a work horse? 2003. And you call Dayne washed up.....

Stephen Davis has been in the league twice as long as Dayne and has had three times as many carries. He's been injured the past 2 years and he is well past his prime.

Please explain your reason for suggesting Stephen Davis becoming our work horse?

7:26 PM  
Blogger RED said...

He would be a good pick for some insurance, i never said he was the answer, speaking of wich I would also look at picking up Travis Henry as well..

8:00 PM  
Blogger RED said...

Lamar Gordon wouldnt be a bad idea to snag up as well.

8:01 PM  
Blogger Jamezwp said...

yep, any one of those guys could be productive in our running game. So could Eddie George, Maurice Clarrett, Olandis Gary, Cameron Oakley, Jake Fleshman, and Tim Foster.

If your concern is depth, remember we have 5 running backs on the roster. 2 of those 5 backs are young players who we drafted the last two years and we've never even given a chance.

8:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

LOL, Tim Foster

9:18 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

It's funny because Red knows we are right in regards to the proof we've provided, but he's so closed-minded that he just has an idea in his head and will argue that idea until it's dead in the dirt even though he has no basis to argue for it. Then he'll continue to argue it after the point trying to call you a dummy for not thinking the same thing.

Remember him saying he didn't want Champ Bailey? What about now after last season and what he has done for this team?

He talk cried for Rueben Droughns even though he only had 97 yards on 40 carries in his CAREER but then calls Dayne unproven.

Instead of just being honest about it, Red is trying to defend his comments. So Red, just say, "I really don't know why we need a new RB, I just feel we do" and that way we can start to appreciate your football chatter!

7:24 AM  
Blogger Jamezwp said...

Red has to realize that he disagrees with you, me, Mike Shanahan, Pat Bowlen, the Broncos coaching staff, the ESPN analysts, Johnathan, Jesus, Moses, Noah, and everybody else with regard to this subject.

1:15 PM  
Blogger Jamezwp said...

even Matt Conner said we need a receiver...............and by the way, Ashlie Lelie is going to force himself out of Denver even if it means sitting out this season according to his agent. Good thing we didn't go running back!

1:18 PM  
Anonymous Owen said...

c'mon Jess, mommy said the running game is fine..

1:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

why doesn't Red respond to you Jamezwp?

7:30 PM  
Blogger Jamezwp said...

I don't know

7:30 PM  
Blogger Erik Mann said...

great topic, keep up the great posts, MMA

5:36 PM  

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