Friday, February 25, 2005

I'd rather have Ty Law then Champ Bailey



Ty Law was just released by the Patriots. In a perfect world I would like to have Bailey and Law on my defense but shoot why not get Law and drop Bailey?

42 Comments:

Blogger RED said...

Ty Law has scored 6 TD's as a D BAck, he has 36 PICKS. The dude is the most physical DB in the NFl why wouldn't you want him? He makes big plays. He is a winner unlike Bailey...

3:16 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Ok - I think Red here needs to learn a few things about the NFL and how contracts work, basically everything behind the scene. Red, Denver can't afford to drop Bailey and go after Law. When you sign a contract, part of that is guaranteed money, and if you drop him, you'd still have to pay that, thus killing your salary cap - which by the way if you don't know can really hurt you if you're over it and it's against NFL by-laws.

But contrary to athleticism, I'd still rather stick with Bailey. I'm not saying Bailey is a better athlete or anything else, it's more then clear cut that Law has much better statistics, it's just Bailey brings other tangibles to the table that Law doesn't.

Not sure if you recall or not, but Ty Law cried in the off-season, called out his genius head coach saying he wasn’t paid enough, blah blah blah, don’t use me enough, blah blah blah. Oh yeah, and his very damaging foot problem that made him not play in 10 or so games last season! The guy has a history of calling out players and coaches. Sure he’s a great athlete, but I’d rather have someone who is still pretty damn good who doesn’t bring that extra garbage in.

I think you need to learn a little patience bro, players just don’t switch teams and all of a sudden become the greatest thing since sliced bread. Besides, Bailey was a Pro-Bowler, which by the way was selected by other players, not a popularity contest like other All-Stars.

3:19 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

And how is Bailey not a winner? It takes more then 1 player to actually win, seemed to be over .500 this past season so how you can substantiate that Bailey is NOT a winner?

3:24 PM  
Blogger RED said...

Steve first of all you need to pull your head out of your anus and wipe the feces out of your eyes. You say Champ Bailey brings intangibles to the table, well name them you feceed covered lunatic! How about you go do this, go look up Law's stats in the playoffs VS Champ Baileys stats and then you can refer to those stats as intangibles. Or perhaps you can count the two fingers Law has that don't have a Championship ring on them. Bailey going to the Pro Bowl last season was a joke and you know it so don't refer to the petty ass pro bowl that even Corey Dillon was unable to attend. Champ Bailey does NOT make big plays. We need a BIG PLAY corner back, not this finesse little alien looking creature.

3:29 PM  
Blogger CosmicPal said...

I'd have to agree with Steve on this one....not sure why you're sold short on Bailey there, Red- he is after all, an All-Pro DB.

But, Steve's right- cutting or even trading away Bailey will go against the cap money. If it was at all possible to ADD Law with Bailey on the opposite side - then you'd have one hell of a defense back there.

Besides, I'm kinda hoping beyond hope he'll become a Chief- if there's any team that could really benefit from his addition: bad attitude or not- is KC.

3:38 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Wow man, thought you'd like to keep it clean. Here are the intangibles that Bailey brings to the table. How many punt/kickoff returns has Law had in his 10-year career? How many offensive plays has Law ran in his 10-year career? It's Bailey's versatility, what he can provide a team. Law, sure can provide a team with good defensive back play. Again, we can go back to the season if you'd like, Bailey didn't play bad. You just saw what you wanted to see. You just assume that is was always man-to-man coverage and Bailey got burnt...nevermind to the safety or anything else, it's always man-to-man in your eyes.

Here is the problem with your childish way of trying to debate. First of all, you start your comments with really stupid things. Then you keep bringing up stats. Dude, seriously, please re-read my comments...here, I'll copy and paste, "it's more then clear cut that Law has much better statistics". Is everything you argue just based about stats? Are you finally admitting that stats are more important than winning? Dude, I know Law's stats are better, they had better be, he's a 10-year vet whereas Bailey is only a 6-year vet.

Super Bowl Rings, yeah, Law has had more obviously. Guess that also makes Randall Gay better then Bailey, Eugene Wilson, Hank Poteat...shall I go on? If you're basing your decision that Law is a winner because of Super Bowl rings, then doesn't that contradict your sorry ass argument over Garcia vs. Plummer? Because regular season wins were more important, whah whah whahhhhh.

By the way, Bailey going to the Pro Bowl last season was not a joke. Again, if you'd learn how defenses actually work, you'd clearly see Bailey did his job, just other players were out of position. Plus his excellent abilities on run coverage from a small CB...quite excellent!

3:39 PM  
Blogger quest4facts said...

Yah, His head is shaped like the 1991 Mark Kelso helmet of the Buffalo Bills .Plus where is Dale Carter when you need him??

3:47 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Here Red - for educational purposes, I've outline a proper way to debate

Start off by acknowledging what the other person said and argue those points. IE, if the person brought up an apple, argue about the apple, different variables of it, etc.

Rebuttal, simply make your remakes about your argument (exception here is if your argument brings no rebuttal to the table) If your rebuttal is about an apple, no reason to bring it up. If it’s about an orange, then bring it up.

Does this help you at all?

3:48 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

His head may be shaped like a retarded disfigured egg, but where does that leave your thoughts on the matter at hand?

3:49 PM  
Blogger RED said...

Steve sorry but you have already lost the past 3 debates that we've had. Intangables my ass Bailey has only like 3 carries on offense and after watching him drop that ball that hit him in the chest VS Jacksonville we didn't see him on O again.

3:56 PM  
Blogger RED said...

Besides there is no real way to compare the two except if you look at the stats the wins, the big plays in the playoffs. Like I said Steve go research it. Go look at Bailey's playoff stats compared to Law's. Go look at the regular season TD's 6 to 1. Tell me this too Devils Food Cake Advocate - What did Bailey do last season to help the Broncos?

4:00 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Lost the past 3 debates?

Wow man, thought you were actually going to try and put some other thoughts behind it other then "stats" - guess that is just what ultimately controls your mind.

Fair enough, I guess I lose this one and will stop posting to it unless someone can actually debate it and stop bringing up cry baby "stats", give their own insight to the subject!

4:17 PM  
Blogger Jamezwp said...

Steve, as painful as it is, I have to agree with you. There is also nothing else I can add to your comments regarding Red's master-debating techniques. One week Red is all up on Bailey's nuts, the next he wants to get rid of him. Get real RED! Bailey is the best corner in the league, bar none!

First of all, Bailey has never gotten hurt, EVER!. What good is a cornerback if he sits on the bench due to injury? Secondly, Bailey's stats (or lack there of) are a tribute to his abilities because it shows how little the ball gets thrown to his side. Sure he has gotten beat deep a little more than we had liked, but with the new rules regarding illegal contact, Bailey didn't have the benefit of raping the receivers for the first 8-10 yards like Law has had in the past. Just wait until next year when Law can't play defense like he has for the last 8 years (that is if Law is healthy enough to even play).

Just ask yourself Red, if Law is that good, why would the Patriots be getting rid of him? Why did the Patriots go 14-2 and win the superbowl without him? I guarantee you it isn't because he is not replaceable.

Bailey on the other hand is just as physical as anybody else in the league. I didn't realize how good Bailey was in run support until this year. And I don't care who the wide receiver is, if the QB has 5 seconds to throw anybody can beat Bailey in coverage. Anybody can get open on anybody if the QB has all day to throw.

7:04 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Overall it's a tough choice, Law is a very good DB, I just don't want him over Bailey. Now if the argument were Law over Walls or someone sure, can't argue that, but I'd never give up Bailey for Law.

And Bailey did a hell of a lot to help out the team last year. There are the little things that he does that aren't included in your precious stats.

Now seriously, why can't you bring up ANYTHING else other than stats? Why are stats the ONLY thing you can even bring up during a debate?

On a serious note here - you want to know why you haven't received EOM or got that sup job you've been after - called thinking outside the box. I've challenged you to think outside the box of stats and you just can't do it!

I've all ready admitted over and over again Law has better stats, so what is the use of you continue to tell me to go look up Law's stats? It's called thinking outside the box man, come up with a better argument. It's not about winning or losing, it's about proving your point and in the last 3 debates (this is #4) you still have yet to do so.

10:31 PM  
Anonymous inkubus79 said...

ty law is a product of the great defense they proved that by there run this year by having two no names and a wr playing the big three

11:18 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Inkubus, I don't necessarily agree, Law is very talented, but he is a 10-year vet who has played well throughout his career in NE. The "system" wasn't really in place until the second half of his career, so I don't agree with you there. The "system" can put a player in the right position, but it still takes a good player to be able to make the plays Law did.

After an interception, there is no such thing as a "system" to allow him to score 6 TDs neither.

What I do agree with you, and I'll reword it a little, is according to Red, Law is a winner. I think Law was part of a winning team where he benefited from that. I certainly don't feel that Law was the best defensive player on that team during their Super Bowl stretch, and I feel this past year proved it by having Law out yet two no name CBs and a WR played just as well in Law's absense.

Good insight though inkubus, thanks for the comment.

6:13 AM  
Blogger Jamezwp said...

Steve, what the hell are you doing up at 6:13Am on a Saturday morning?

10:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wiping that anus stuff out of his eyes.

12:03 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

I can't sleep in man

9:59 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Obviously a previous comment has caused quite a stir - the comment about the supervisor and EOM stuff. First of all, it's nothing personal. Everytime Red brings up that stuff to his supervisor, his supervisor says to "think outside the box" which is why I brought it up. Red is very close to a supervisor position and thinking outside the box has nothing to do with why he hasn't obtained it yet!

I'm just trying to leave comments that will encourage Red to think outside the box (stats) when discussing this Law vs Bailey issue.

If people are taking it personally, don't - I didn't intend for it to ruffle any feathers.

I don't take it personally when he writes to take my head out of anus and wipe the feces out of my eyes, so don't take it personally with the comments I left. It's not personal, just sports chatter!

12:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Right on Steve! All's fair & Fun to read! You guy's "Red & Steve" Make my day! I laugh so hard sometimes! Keep up the Good work. Enjoy stopping by.

4:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was wondering about that Steve... Are you guys friends? I mean that was kind of a low blow if that is true?

4:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What does REDS sup job have to do with sports?

4:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Potentate= RED
Pother= Steve

5:54 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

What does posting anonymously accomplish?

Low blows are given back and forth on this site, I know I don't take things personally and I am pretty sure Red doesn't either. We have been best friends for quite some time now, so stupid little remarks like feces in the eyes and sup job stuff isn't going to affect it. But if you guys really must know, Red will become a supervisor here shortly, he is right on the brink, has solid interviews, great resume, just doesn't have the experience in a corporate world. But he'll get it soon. And if anyone of you really know Red and I, you'll know how much I've done to try and help his career. From all the proof-reading and interview advice, etc etc etc, I've given a 100% support to his future with the company, so as far as I am concerned, this conversation is finished!

Red - Bailey is better!

8:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Because it's an option and we like given you all shit too! It's your site and were just attending to the party! Lighten up dude!

4:36 AM  
Blogger R. D. Baker said...

Curious

The Broncos "D" was fourth in the league last year in defense and top 10 in scoring defense. Why are you all even debating making changes?

6:24 AM  
Blogger RED said...

Baker - Because it makes great conversation.

9:00 AM  
Blogger RED said...

Steve - No harm taken. Next subject...

9:00 AM  
Blogger Steve said...

And Baker, just because Denver had the 4th ranked scoring defense last season, doesn't mean a whole lot, especially after giving up 49 in a 1st round playoff loss. Besides, for having the 4th best defense in the NFL, a 10-6 record isn't all that impressive. Changes on both sides of the ball need to happen.

1:50 PM  
Anonymous Ben said...

if you think that Law is better then Champ and you would rather have him then champ you are kidding or clinically retarded. Law is nothing but trash Bailey is the man and no one can even come close

GO BRONCOS

7:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ty Law is a loser not a winner he has dropped out of the NFL basically sportcenter and all the ESPN stations never have a story on him nor do they show highlights bc he is a washed up hasbeen Champ is basically a god he is still being blown up better then b4 and he will never fade away from the press he will retire and get inducted into the hall-of-fame and will always take away half of the football field

10:13 PM  
Anonymous mikee said...

yea, baily own law law sucks baily own nothing gets past baily physical or making sure the wide out doesnt get the ball at all

8:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ur dumb. Do u take that after this season? If u dont I think u should stop while ur ahead.

11:18 PM  
Blogger broncosown9899 said...

ty law is an old fart he can't even keep up with recievers anymore and champ bailey is one of the fastest players in the nfl also if you look at when the broncos faced the patriots on sunday night this year tom brady didnt even look at who bailey was covering, red you are fighting a losing battle

10:26 AM  
Blogger R8rH8r said...

Denver has played the fagriots twice since Red exposed these ignorant ramblings. So, how did that turn out for ya? Idiot.
Champ Bailey does NOT make big plays.
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA You should ask Tom Brady or Drew Breese if they agree with that statement, douchebag. Why would someone who knows so little about football care to make comments on a football blog? Does mommy not give you enough attention? Do you enjoy looking like a fool? Your crack dealer sub in ivory soap for your regular set-up?
You strike me as a normally insane person with lucid moments of stupidity.
Remember: when you forget you meds for three days you can't not just make it up on the fourth day. "use only as directed"

2:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow the owner of this site is a complete moron, bailey is much younger and you cant look at laws and baileys stats because there are no stats for shutting down receivers. Teams dont even look baileys way because he shuts down 1/3 off the field which takes pressure off the rest of the defense. The defensive coordinator can blitz like crazy and not worry about bailey's receiver getting open. Ty Law might have all the pics but thats because he was never the shutdown corner that bailey arleady is now and at a much younger age. You should give up ur site to me because apparently all you know about football is by looking at stats you stupid nerd. You know nothing about football. There are no stats for this you just have to no football - bailey is a shutdown corner so teams dont throw the ball his way so he can get picks law is a really great conerback that gets beat but he occaisionally comes up with a big pick. bailey is better hands down u faggit

10:16 PM  
Anonymous pat said...

no way man law is past his time, bailey is shut down all they, u cant even throw the ball to his side of the field, he practically owns it.thats y reggie wayne had a huge game against them, cuz he wouldnt throw it to harrison since he was covered by champ. all denver needs is another really good corner and it wil be impossible to score on them.

3:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ty Law is a waste of money, he's old now. Have you WATCHED him play for the cheifs this year?! Champ Bailey LEADS the league in interceptions this year and is in the running for defensive player of the year. He is a shutdown corner and the freakin finest guy in the NFL!!!

8:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ok the perfect Defence would me asante samuel and champ bailey tu law is past his prime and dont even try and talk about ty law being better try this year champ gets 10 picks well i will say ty law has peyton mannings number with out a doubt but i think the might peyton manning fears CHAMP (real name roland) BAILEY when he throws what 3 passes his way and i saw peyton look ty laws way i never saw him even flinch to champs side

10:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've heard it said more than once that not only is Champ the best corner in the league, but could rank as one of the single best football players of all time. Champ is a big play DB, but the fact that quarterbacks are so damn scared of you that they never throw the ball your way sort of slims the chances. Then when a QB gets bold, Bailey picks. Getting Bailey was the best thing for the Broncos in a long time (hopefully right before getting Cutler), and I'd rather have players with class and decency as well as incredible talent than the self-centered pricks who think they own the universe because they have some talent.

12:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ty Law in the first 8 seasons
119 Starting Games, 29 Int, and
350 Tackles

Champ, first 8 seasons
126 Starting Games, 39 Int, and
506 Tackles

Ty Law overall
173 Starting Games, 50 Int, and
639 Tackles

Bailey has more Int's per season and per game, more tackles per season and per game, more starts per season (less injuries)

1:11 PM  

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